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TimeTravel_0

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((Your argument as to my point was not sufficient. You suggested that an alternate you would most likely return to your world line. It just does not seem logical for one to go back in time on a mission for their world line only to return to an alternate worldline where the mission goal may or may not have bearing if completed.
By the way, the Kerr ring singularity is a spacetime possessing CLOSED timelike curves. You would clearly need a naked singularity so that the chronology violating region would not be hidden behind the event horizon.))

As you are aware, approaching a rotating singularity can be done quite easily without experiencing the negative side effects of a massive gravitational field and it’s very possible to “pass” through the center of the ring. Besides, if you did need a naked singularity, all you would have to do is increase the rotation or electric charge so the inner even horizon equals the diameter of the outer event horizon.

I realize my posts here have become tiresome and my “story” is old so If I don’t post it’s not because I don’t enjoy the physics debate. If you’re interested, I will be posting more pages from the manual and a cut-a-way drawing of the distortion unit.

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Guest richar18

Mr. Grunt, it seems to make sense to me. maybe an electron is a standing low-pressure wave of spacetime. What if spacetime itself could be modeled as a random flux of particles? when these particles are ordered, energy appears out of the "vacuum". Now, what if an electron where just a standing wave of negative energy density, set into motion by a disturbance in the randomness of the vacuum? A statistical change in the amount of order at a central location sets a ripple in spacetime into motion. This ripple is one half of an electromagnetic wave. This wave spreads out as na energy density wave, and can be seen as longitudinal in nature. It then hits spots of more and less dense spacetime (level of particle order) and parts of it get reflected back in on itself, as a converging energy-density front, towards its origin. We now have a time reversed wave, bringng energy back instead of giving it off. This happens at an incredible rate, and is possibly what sustains the reaction. now we have a standing wave, and at 1/2 wavelength away from the origin, a low pressure buildup might possibly occur. We have a particle with a one wavelength diameter, with an electric field surrounding it. the electric field is the phase shift of the two interacting wave fronts, moving outward from the origin.

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Trott,

Hello. It seems that your name and the anagram for John Titor is simply a coincidence.

I've posed this scenario to John as a strong argument against time travel. I received a sophisticated and humorous response from him, which I appreciated. But he didn't attempt to explain hiw it could happen or what prevents it from happening...

We tend to talk about time travel in terms of going forward or back in time a number of years, decades or centuries. But what of a small trip? A trip of 10 seconds with only a small (several feet) change in physical location.

A proposito:

The early time travel researcher plans a 10 second trip into the past where he will be physically displaced several feet from his original location. He has the experiment set to go. 10 seconds before he throws the switch his duplicate appears in the lab several feet from him.

Intrigued by his apparent success-to-be he enters into a discussion with the duplicate. He learns the following: the duplicate remembers entering his machine and throwing the switch - he also remembers seeing a duplicate of himself appear in the lab 10 seconds before throwing the switch.

The "original" researcher declares success and never does enter his machine and throw the switch. He concludes that by simply building a viable machine and thinking about a time trip he has caused the duplicate to appear.

If time travel is possible then this absurd failure of causality and chronology is also possible.

The absurdity is worse if you consider that it would appear that there is an endless chain of duplicates entering machines and seeing another endless chain of duplicates arriving at the lab 10 seconds prior to the throwing of the switch. What is the result of the endless chain of duplicates arriving in the lab simultaneously? If they arrive at, and simultaneously occupy, the same 4-dimensional coordinate they violate exclusion. I'm aware of but one construct that can have that property (of violating exclusion)...and it would be naked unless the duplicates were drunk and spinning.

Using John's estimate of 2.5% divergence on a 60 year trip, I don't see divergence as being a factor in a 10 second trip. These duplicates wouldn't be appearing on alternate timelines.

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Guest DethWind

TT0 PLEASE answer my posted question? Please? You keep ignoring it, why? Don't ask me "what question" it's the one in the posting "Where is Time Traveler" or something like that.

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Guest rgrunt

Dear Richer18,

I do not want to be hasty in making any oppinions but what you stated from my stand point sounds like a perfectly legitimate possibility to me. As I know it the substance of 'quantum stuff' has been held to actually be composed of the substance chance or 'waves of chance' to be more precise by many quantum physists for some fifty odd years now.?


I myself subscribe to this model. I believe that the dynamics you stated in your last transmission are plausible and possibly correct. I must add that I am not a physisist and unfortunately am not educated fully to the current model. Some of my knowlege dates back one hundred years or so. I can say this because it was not to long ago that I learned that it has been known for many years that light slows down through a medium such as glass and that this property is responcible for convexing(is this the correct word) of the light.


I do not let this stop me from thinking and I do not let this stop me from coming up with theories. I believe that in the future I will have a wealth of knowlege that I have gathered and ascertained about various processes and functions and this gained knowlege will enable me to affectively adapt my theory to fit the current more accurate current model(As long as the current model is not completely and obviously flawed in some very obvious manner-that is- I do not believe in accepting flawed interpritations that are come too as a result of misunderstanding the proscess or more accurately misunderstanding the intent and content of the proscess.)

I believe that trott might be able to answer your theory and mine more accurately based on his education. How about it trott? Will you evaluate our theories?

Thanks for the replies?

Regards,

Edwin G. Schasteen

P.S. ( I am not meaning to inply that you are not educated richer18 just that I am not) So please forgive me if that was offencive. Surely, I meant no offence by the form of my paragragh.

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Guest VERTIGO

ok first of all i do NOT wish to take sides
on belivers or non-belivers, nor do i want any enemys because of my actions.
i will be the"common sense" adviser when i find somthing i dont think is possible in your little....hmmm how shuld i put it.....SQUABBLES tha u online peeps have.
i have seen the pics of TT_O time traveling machine and... well to say the least it looks primative. I mean why doesnt it look like the inside of a jet or something?
secondly, not to demoralize u because i am NOT choosing sides, but if u guys(and by that im tlaking about TTA and TT_O)
are really time travlers, isnt your most important task warning of plage and/or other life thretning situations and not how many pages u can post on your lovely forums?
just thought id ask.(hehe imagion the troble im in now)

VERTIGO
"if its not dead,its not within one hundred feet of me"

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Dear Fellow Time Travelers:

In about 30 days, I will be leaving this worldline to return home to 2036. I first want to say thank you for the wonderful conversation and insight into your society. I have learned a great deal and my opinion on quite a few things has changed dramatically.

I will finish the questions that have been posted on this site up to this date. Unfortunately, I must now spend my spare time preparing to leave and I will not be on the computer very much. I do however want to repeat my offer and add a slight twist.

After going over my flight plan home, I have discovered my VGL holdover period is a bit longer than I expected. I will be spending at least three weeks in April of 1998 as I make my way back to 1975. Therefore, I not only offer you the chance to leave a message to yourself in 2036 but I offer you the chance to leave yourself a message in 1998. I will take any compiled messages and email addressees you provide and send them on the net when I get to 1998.

Granted, this will not affect you on your worldline now but you make take some comfort that another “you” on another worldline has the advantage of knowing something you wish you knew three years ago. Based on the earlier questions I’ve seen, I’ve decided a day-to-day record of the Dow a day in advance should convince you that the messages are real in 1998.

In addition, I am hopeful a series of photocopies and photographs will be available for you that may give you more insight into the technology of the distortion unit. I will let you know the address of the site when it is available. I also plan to have my parents videotape my departure. If they succeed, it will also be posted after I leave.

I look forward to these last few weeks with my family and I will check in periodically to check this site.

Live in Peace 2001,

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Thank you for the offer TT_0 but, I will pass. If I ever have the chance I will always go forward and come back to my starting point and go no futher back. I preffer things as they were. (Even though in some timeline this is not the case.) It has been really nice hearing your story. Remeber that drink when you get home.
Djay

[This message has been edited by djayr42 (edited 11 March 2001).]

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John has asked me if I wouldnt mind collecting the emails for him again and forwarding them to him.
anybody who wants to can write me using my email address found in my profile and I will forward your letters or "messages to 1998" ,"messages to 2036" to John.
All messages I receive I will keep confidential and they will be forwarded right to John.
sincerely,
Pamela

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Guest DaViper

Darby:

Yes!

Take it one step further.

He travels back 1/10th second in time to his neighbor's bedroom at a most delicate moment, which is virtually identicle to going there NOW. The first time this happens, Time Travel will be outlawed forever.

I go back to last night when the Met Museum is closed and steal a valuable painting.

I go back to last week and stop the school shooting by taking the gun from the house the kid used.

This can get even more absurd as we go here.

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Guest RICHAR18

Daviper and Darby: There is no paradox in what you propose, if you were to accept the multiple universe theory. Once you flip the switch and actually go back to your previous location, you will in fact see what appears to be yourself. It's not, however, you. This being's existence is in a universe that is very close to yours, but is not solely regulated to follow the same timeline as yours. As soon as you appear in the parallel reality you break it away from your own, in that you decouple the two parallel timelines.

after your encounter, your twin may or may not enter his time machine, and the path of that reality is not altered - it only continues to branch. There is no change in any future, because that future has not happenned yet, in all cases.

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Guest RICHAR18

One more thing - divergence WOULD be a factor, no matter how short the trip. It is not possible to have a non divergent trip, as far as time travel is concerned. as soon as you leave your time-line, you can only get back to one that is similar to it. it may be similar by 99.99995%, but it is still a different timeline. it is free to break away from its once-parallel (to your original universe) line of motion, so altering it is not possible. You can only cause it to branch, and that is what it is doing anyway. As far as violating the exclusion principal, that is not of concern. you must have hardware that can map out the entry position so as to prevent your being trapped in a solid structure, but the immense field that would be produced as a product of the time travel device would clear a path for you, by annihalating the particles in its vicinity, then gradually diminishing to reveal its contents.

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Guest DethWind

TTO can I go with you? Your time sounds awesome...I dislike now, especially with how we(those who are in school) are being controlled by the government...I really dislike being forced to 'learn' to help our nation keep up with other nations. Whatever happened to our liberties? our freedom? I asked my teacher at school that question and he said that in school we have no liberties...almost like prisoners.

Sigh...

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Trott,

I get the drift of the CTC's and closed null geodesics but that may be just a bit too deep for this particular thread. If I were you and wanted to continue to cast doubt on John's story I'd continue with using John's own data as your weapon.

For instance, he has stated that his society is not involved in space travel. He's also stated that the temperature in and around his device while in use is approximately 100 degrees (approx 375 kelvin).

If the Hawking Radiation of a black hole stated in Kelvins is:

6x10^-8/M) where M is Solar Masses and John has given a temperature of 100 degrees (approx 400 kelvin), then the mass of his singulatities should be about:

3x10^20 kg. (1/6,600,000,000 Solar Masses)given that the sun contains approx. 330,000 Earth masses and the mass of the Earth is 5.98*10^24 kg

Or - he's taken a slice of the Earth about 1.2 miles wide at the equator from pole to pole down to the center of the Earth and compressed it into a singularity. And his machine has two of them, GE has a larger unit (C206) and there are multiple machines of each model (C204 & C206).


If his society doesn't space travel - then they are gobbling up the Earth to make their singularities.

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((For instance, he has stated that his society is not involved in space travel. He's also stated that the temperature in and around his device while in use is approximately 100 degrees (approx 375 kelvin). ))

I’m not sure I understand the connection between no space travel and the temperature around the device.

((If the Hawking Radiation of a black hole stated in Kelvins is…))

The singularities are not unstable; therefore, uncontrolled evaporation is not possible. In addition, there is no extemporaneous matter near the singularity that would cause it to give off radiation or heat.

((Or - he's taken a slice of the Earth about 1.2 miles wide at the equator from pole to pole down to the center of the Earth and compressed it into a singularity. And his machine has two of them, GE has a larger unit (C206) and there are multiple machines of each model (C204 & C206). ))

A singularity about the size of an electron would only require the mass of a large mountain. The singularities inside the C204 are much small than that. And no, I didn’t make them.

((If his society doesn't space travel - then they are gobbling up the Earth to make their singularities.))

You know… E = MC squared can be written to solve for mass too.

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TT_0,
I am not sure what you mean by unstable or stable when it comes to a singularity. I asked before if this was suppose to be a naked singularity or one which in fact has an event horizon? If it does have an event horizon, then Hawking radiation is a natural phenonmenon which you can not prevent, it is the result of virtual particle pairs form at the event horizon something which can not be prevented. Darby is correct to point out that the evaporation rate is inversely related to the surface area of the event horizon, so if you have such a small black hole it should not last long at all before it evaporates.
The mass an object has presumably comes from the coupling of its particles to the Higgs field. If you were some how able to increase the coupling of a particle then you in theory you could make it more massive. Or if you were able to decrease the coupling make it less massive. Although, currently there is no concrete i.e definitive evidence of the Higgs boson's existence. There is some indication at LEP at CERN but it is disputed. We should definitely know within our lifetimes though, since the LHC will come online in 2006 with more than enough energy to find the Higgs boson if it exists.

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I thought you all might enjoy this...
*(TT_0, do you recall any mention of this?)

“Time Travel”
How Science Can Finally Make It Happen.
Discover Magazine
April 1992
( Note: Cost of this Magazine during publication, was on sale at local news stands for: $2.95)

Below is a link to where I uploaded the scanned images from the magazine containing this article. (More To Come Latter.)
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=2c0c8d9a5d60e75c735c3aa24020166e&threadid=2705

If you have any problems with the link, you can always goto http://www.exosci.com
(science forums>science>frontier physics)

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Guest DethWind

I'm really starting to doubt that you are from the future TT0. The fact that you won't answer my simple questions has drawn me to this conclusion.

 

Sigh...

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Dear Deathwind,
Most of your questions are already answered in "time travel paradoxes" and on Art Bells board. Its unfortunate that you came on board so late. John (TTO) is preparing to leave and he just wants to spend some time alone with his family. Out of respect for him I am posting this for you. I don't think he is really planning on answering any more questions, up to the point he made his announcement to leave.
He wont give "leaders" names for the obvious reasons,it could put their families in danger at this time.
If there is a letter you would like to forward to your self in 1998 I would be happy to forward this on to him.
sincerely,
pamela

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 13 March 2001).]

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Guest DethWind

Ya know, i think back in 1998 april, back right before StarCraft came out...i received a message in my email that said it was from the future, and it said to play starcraft. i probably just shrugged it off cause starcraft hadn't come out yet...but i know that if i send a message to myself the message is going to say "Play starcraft and get very good at it".

hmm..

sigh...

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Guest DaViper

Richar18:

"Daviper and Darby: There is no paradox in what you propose, if you were to accept the multiple universe theory."

...but ...

You see,...

I don't!

For the same simple reason that I don't accept "Pyramid Power". Or The Tarot as a predictor of the future. Or even Astrology for that matter.

Why?

Simple.

Because there is not one shred of evidence that any of it is true to the degree that it can be demonstrated repeatedly, predicted accurately and then documented correctly as to just exactly how it is so.

You know. Like Time Dilation. Which has undergone ALL of those conditions and PROVEN to be a fact of physics and life and the universe.

And many other things I could easily exceed the 11 page limit on this board describing.

But Multiple Universes, Parallel Universes, or Multiverse Theory (as it has come to be called), is not a theory at all. It is a Hypothesis in SEARCH of a theory. An easy explaination for that which we do not understand. A catch-all answer for the unknown. But being an explaination (as a POSSIBILITY) for why things are the way they are does not constitute proof, fact or even a viable alternative if it can't be demonstrated reliably. And Multiverse "Theory" can't even be demonstrated at all. Let alone reliably.

We could say that every time an Airplane takes off it flies because all the people aboard "will" it to be so. It WOULD explain flight. Except for the fact that it's not so. And the flight of the airplane can be easily demonstrated by other means that ARE demonstrable, reliable, and predictable.

Or we COULD say that invisible rubber bands explain gravity. It WOULD explain it for sure. But it wouldn't make it so.

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Here is something really interesting.
I went back to look at the "time travel paradoxes" thread and I noticed the missing pages from page 11 have showed up at the end.
investigating the situation I went back and read some pages and noticed that there were some postings deleted. I noticed there were two posts that I made that had several postings between them are now gone. and my postings are right next to each other now.
so in conclusion when someone deleted those postings (and several others)it made room for the missing pages to appear. someone must have deleted quite a few postings to provide for that much room to be put back on page 11.
sincerely,
pamela

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Guest Draco2

Hey Pamela!! You are correct in your ascertion that your posts have been moved and changed on P.11 of the Paradox thread!!
Why and who would have done that, I don't know, But I do know that's not the way the posts that made it on P.11 origionally. Quite the discombobulation, but it could have been alot worse, the whole thread could have been deleted......

Well, gotta go, HAVE A GREAT DAY!!

PEACE FROM THE MATRIX OF LIFE!!!

~ Draco the Druid

p.s. GODSPEED TTO!!!

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TT_0...I noticed in the second photo (in the dark)
it appears, that you was holding in your left hand, a pen-laser & pointing it in the direction to your window, seated on the right front side, of the vehicle.

Was that a "Cigar" you were holding in your Right-Hand?

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 19 March 2001).]

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