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Guest rgrunt@yahoo.com

Thanks for refering me to the article. It was very interesting. To answer their questions on why quarks have a greater mass then electrons is because there is more energy compressed to a small space which makes up the quark.

This results in a higher energy density to the quarks and a smaller space-time density in the quarks. If my theory is correct one can calculate the difference between the density of a quark and an electron by finding out how far one would have to pry a strong force apart before the strong force would equal an infinite density.


That radius corresponds to the energy density of an electron compressed to a piont. Thus to increase the radius of a strong force gluon is to increase the energy density of the quarks.


This energy density increase of the quarks results in a space-time density within the quarks equal to 1/e^2. Now the energy density of an electron is measured by the density of the gluons that mediate the strongforce between the quarks within the electron.


Since quarks increase in energy density as they are pryed a part the space time density will decrease as the quarks increase and the gravitational forces exerted by an electron will increase as the electron is split apart.


This is because one of the unique properties of strong force is that strong force increases in strength as the strong force is pryed apart. The space-time density within the quarks is much less then the space-time density within the electron itself. This is because the gluon is much less dense energy wise then the quarks themselves.


When one measures the energy mass of an electron one is actually measureing the lattice of energy that surrounds the quarks which is an intertwining of strong force glouns. Since the gloun force is surounds the electrons quark mass like a field and since the space-time density within the eletrons inner quark mass is much less then the space-time density within the strong force gloun that surounds the electron, the strength of the gravitational pull of the electron increases more then likely to infinity as one approaches the center mass of an electron as a result of the decrease in space-time density to zero at the centermass of the electron at which the energy density is infinite.


This means that the outermost energy force field is less massive then the inner parts of the electron as is supported by the 'confusing' experiments.


There are two reasons that an electron does not crush as a result of infinite gravitational force at the center of the electron. First it requires a greater then infinite force to crush a mass to beyond the center mass of the object. And second, Time becomes reversed beyond the center mass of eletron. Thus the mass beyond the centermass of an electron is superluminal and mediated by tachyons.


Thus when a greater then infinite force is applied to crush the electron; once that force travels beyond the center mass of the electron the direction of the work being done by the force reverses. This causes an Greater then infinite force deflecting back through the force as a result of the negative time component causing the electron to assume it's possitive mass form.

sincerely,

Edwin G. Schasteen

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 would like to examine this "Quantum Vaccum Theory" a bit more, I find that it describes that seemingly present weak electrical force that emitts from Zero Point.

I even heard from Dr. Michio Kaku the other night, on the radio, he spoke of this, and mentioned that it is a "Misnomer" to say that it is "Nothing" in the space between electrons & atoms, that in fact "Something" is actualy there! (electrons from the quantum vaccum of space.) again we must first get by this, and try to understand it more, as in relation to what is happening here, and how we can use this to our advantage, and then perhaps we will better understand the plausability factors for free energy, overunity, anti-gravity, Time~Travel, and the abundunt power of space needed for propulsion & power to make these things work.

*Zero Point Energy out of the Quantum Vaccum of Space. Hmmm??? I wonder what makes it all tic?

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Guest DaViper

rgrunt: (or should I say Mr. Schasteen)

Very interesting.

Your depictions of Quantum Particle Thoery are indeed formidible. You are proving to be someone who has descriptive abilities beyond what you have been given credit thus far it seems. (It appears you are a person who "holds back" a bit to see what develops in the exchange of dialog. I like that.)

I follow you on the hypothesis you offer except for one thing, but it is merely a matter of semantic definition I'm sure.

Could you elaborate on the term "space-time density". I know I questioned what you meant by "energy density" earlier, but now I do see what YOU mean by that. Your explanation was informative.

Also, when you say:

"This results in a higher energy density to the quarks and a smaller space-time density in the quarks. If my theory is correct one can calculate the difference between the density of a quark and an electron by finding out how far one would have to pry a strong force apart before the strong force would equal an infinite density."

I assume you mean counteract the strong force by prying the quarks apart, but why would not the strong force at some measurable distance reach a "breaking point" if you will, thru the action of this "prying", rather than approach an infinite density?

Would we not instead have a condition of "Free-quarks" available to establish the existence of other protons or neutrons say, providing other free quarks can be found in a similar state? Since it only takes three quarks to constitute a proton or neutron, (depending on quark color combination of course), this should be easy to do. No?

And thanks for the discourse.

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Guest Bob

electrons aren't made of quarks. they're leptons, and only hadrons like protons or neutrons are made of quarks.

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Guest rgrunt@yahoo.com

Dear Bob,

Thankyou for the knowlege. Is the electron composed or held together by strong force glouns? In other words, are electrons made up of strong force? Are electrons known to be single entities not made up of any smaller partcles(accept glouns if composed of strong force)? If the electron is not made up of any strong forces then is electrons made up of weak force? I based my ussumption that electrons were composed and bound by quarks bound togetherby strong force glouns but based on you last transmission I am assuming that electrons are made up of strong force glouns(since electrons are known to be indivisible). Is my ussumption about the electron's composition correct?

Deviper,

When I speak of space-time density I am assuming that energy occupying space is the same as space being occupied by energy and also space occupying energy. I assume that space-time is a tangable substance. I see space asa quantized closed entity. I allow that space can be open but for the most part it is as closed system. By doubling the volume of space in a given region the density of space in that region will be squared( I think) just like if one were to double the volume of energy in a given region the density of that energy would be squared(I think) No I believe that they woud be cubed for we are measuring energy per unit volume and not per unit square....
To double the volume of space time in a given region is to double the volume to which the energy in that region is occupying. Thus by doubling the volume of space the same volume of energy occupying a greater volume of space results in a decrease in the energies density. Now this can be reversed to say that if one doubles the volume of energy in a given space the space in that region of space will decrease in density as a result of less area of space occupying the same region of energy. Since the density of energy is uniform the density of space relative to the density of energy will also be uniform. Thus the space decreases density uniformly as energy increases density uniformly within the closed region.

I have to go I will right more later.

Edwin G. Schasteen

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Pamela,

you have met TT0 in the person?

have you seen the time machine?


im not paranoid(not too paranoid) but i think it was a terrible idea for TT0(if his story is true) to have told us anything about it.


question for TT_0 on the event of his return,

what affects the probability when traversing through time?

and have you heard of the Time Vector Field Chronicles?


FastWalker2

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Fast,
I am still not 100% Positive he really is a time traveler. Iam still skeptical.. and he knows this and accepts this... but...

One thing I think he is hoping to convey on the message board is the philosophical concept that once man is able to travel in time, there is no more absolute truth.

sincerely,
pamela

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Guest DaViper

Bob:

"electrons aren't made of quarks. they're leptons, and only hadrons like protons or neutrons are made of quarks."

Yes of course. My response to rgrunt is along the lines of his speculation that "prying apart quarks" could result in the strong force approaching an infinite density, which frankly I can't see. Hence my counter speculation of free quarks available to form new hadrons like protons etc.

As rgrunt has discovered about me, I'm happy to speculate to the limits of human knowledge as long as we don't base speculation on the assumption of anything that has already proven to NOT be so.

rgrunt:

Again, thank you for the clarification of what YOU mean by "space-time density". It's easier to follow someone else's speculations about something when you understand what THEY mean by something.

Semantics!.....:-)

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Guest DaViper

Pamela:

Please allow youe skepticism to bring you all the way to the simple conclusion that TT_0 is in fact NOT a time traveler.

I do not say this as a detriment to his words, (since I'm already on record as considering him to be a creative and intelligent person who has a lot to say philosophically), but merely that his declarations on being a time traveler are based on quantum theories that have already been clearly proven to NOT be so.

In other words, he CAN'T be.

But I still like him anyway.

Let him play out his fantasy. It's a good vehicle for his philosophical musings which are right on in many cases.

(See post above to Bob.)

Peace.

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Guest rgrunt

Dear Deviper,

Yes According to modern theory as far as I know that it would take an infinite amount of energy to pry apart a hadron. Of course the way that this is stated is that it is impossible to pry apart hadrons.


This is speculative in that the scientists assume that no infinite amount of energy could be generated. However I beg to differ. The way my device will work is a fluke of the machanical setup.


By torqueing the field one compressed the field at a perpendicular angle and stretches the field at the parallel angle. By stretching the field in a vertical direction while simultaneously compressing the field in a horizontal angle the kenetic forces applied allow for the compression to be countered by the stretching such that the distribution of the field that propogates parallel is redistributed to propagate perpindicular while simultaneously the portion of the magnetic field that propagates perpendicular is redistributed to propagate parallel.


This creates a shearing force that reaches a critcal stage at the point that the field is constriced to bear the topology of an hourglass at 180 degrees of torque. Torqueing beyond this will pry a gap in the field because greater then infinite(or the upper limit) energy is applied in a given instant at a given point allotting the necesary work ( in watts I think) to pry apart the hadrons thus causing the splitting of hadrons or better yet fission of energy releasing ungodly amounts of energy.


Think of it like this when one splits a mass at the molecular level a small explosion accurs. When one splitts a mass at the nuclear level a very large explossion accurs. When one splitts mass at the energy level an even larger amount of energy will be released.

Edwin G. Schasteen

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Guest DaViper

rgrunt:

I DO follow you here, and I like the fact that you are willing to challenge the conventional wisdom of Quantum Theory.

(To me, challenging "Conventional Wisdom" on ANYTHING is the path to discovery.)

Now I'm left with another question tho.

When you say:

"By stretching the field in a vertical direction while simultaneously compressing the field in a horizontal angle the kenetic forces applied allow for the compression to be countered by the stretching such that the distribution of the field that propogates parallel is redistributed to propagate perpindicular while simultaneously the portion of the magnetic field that propagates perpendicular is redistributed to propagate parallel."

...I have to ask,

Isn't this trying to apply conventional (macrocosmic) physics to the microcosmic world? Haven't we seen that such applications are not to be relied upon when dealing with Quanta?

I would not suggest that what YOU suggest can't be done, merely that the very ability to apply such principles at such a level does itself break down due to the inability to even measure the accuracy of microcosmic events with macrocosmic technology. Is this not the very foundation of why the Heisenberg Principle renders such applications even unmeasurable, let alone do-able?

It seems to me that the laws of physics as we know them to be at the macrocosmic level only ever will allow us to construct devices that can only ever react with the macrocosmic world.

The microcosmic world requires methods that are not necessarily applicable on the larger scale, and vice versa.

In short, I'm not sure the principles of "perpendicular" and "parallel" have any real meaning at the quantum level.

Thoughts?

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Just a few words to you TT_0 if we don't hear from you again. I just want you to know this; you will not escape the truth that underneath all your numerous cleverly thought out, well crafted explaining of bailing your self out of stating to be a Time Traveler from the year 2036 (is that right?), that you are indeed a man with a hidden agenda. I can sense it, maybe others can too, but I’m hardly ever wrong about this. That’s just the way I feel you come off as.

So what could your hidden agenda be? Well I don’t sense you’re that inclined to want to fight our world problems. It seems all you like to do is hear your self-talk. And the more you do, it sounds more like your claims are more of a self proclamation you have, once done you can then acknowledge to your self that you managed to con a whole bunch of people to believe and follow you.

But you forgot to take in to consideration 1 thing when you came to this board. The human factor. That a few (close to maybe 2 or 3 people) in this message board would see beyond your well rehearsed (well written in speech and grammar) works of scientific explanation, and shut you up with plain basic truths of Right and Wrong.

Nevertheless, I hypothesize your out of material, and can no longer support your claims. Which is why you haven’t posted in over 2 weeks. The questions have been asked, and you answered most of them accurately (since they were all mostly questions about science).

So it is my conclusion that you are now probably home contemplating of what you learned from a race of humans your generation looks down on hehe. Or you can probably end up posting soon after everyone began calling up for your attention again.

What a coincidence that would be wouldn’t it? That your busy schedule suddenly opened up.

Either way, it sure would be interesting to hear what kinds of stories you’d share with us next. I know I’m anxious to hear them. How about you?

-Javier C.

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TT_0 was always saying he has nothing to prove to us..then WHY..WHY come to a TIME TRAVEL forum(and numerous others) to spout off your achievements..

now i believe TT_0's time machine is a fraud.

when the real questions popup he is as silent as a man with no tougue.

FastWalker2

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Guest borgus

He has nothing to prove to us because he is a writer who is looking for some interaction to help him construct the characters in his story. I woudln't be surprised to see a similar book or movie about this soon.

I tested him by first saying i was a writer of science fiction. Notice how he chose to ignore my comments and questions. I asked him again to tell us more about his observations of society... which he blatantly avoided by saying "ask me questions".

Since he has such a deep-seeded hate and despair for this time period (we caused the war he grew up with) it would seem that he would be more outspoken about it (which he was before). Now he is running out of new things to say, hoping that we will spark something new to finish off his novel.

Explain these points:

-he suddenly does not want to talk about society.

-he had time to learn how to write perfect english while he was growing up fighting war and now running his farm just to survive.

-before the election was decided, he said that the florida votes would never be counted. They were counted. (don't tell me that his landing in the 1970's caused the election to change)

-his use of "Gosub" as a metaphore for something. During his time period he would never have learned BASIC and the langauge. Even if his grandfather taught him about it he would still not be so familiar with it that he would use "Gosub" in a sentence not related to programming. Much more likely he grew up during the 1970's and is now in his mid 40's contemplating his life.

The point remains. His details are well thought out, but he doesn't have anything to prove to us. He won't respond to making a sound clip for us, which shows that he's not really interested in changing our timeline... a point which he has flipped back and forth on.

Now that we have cought on, and have not supplied interesting questions for him to explain, he is uninterested in us. A sign of selfishness, which by the way is the very trait that he blames us for.

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Guest NoTime

TT_O is now posting on the Art Bell web site Time Travel Forum under the name of John Titor. His thread is called "I Am From 2036".

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Greetings everyone! I’ve missed you all too. As I’m sure Pamela can tell you, my email system is made up of quite a few addresses, locations and computers. Some of them work better than others and for a period of time, I have been unable (in my own way) to get to this site. It appears I’ve come back at just the right moment.

I see you’re all asking yourselves questions about who I really am, what I want and why I’m here. Frankly, I really can’t blame you but perhaps it’s a bit easier now to understand why I not only didn’t expect you to believe me but I didn’t want you to. As far as my credibility, I thought we had reached some sort of happy medium and we could call each other friend.

I see however that may not be the case and I must admit I’m a bit disappointed. It seems that unless I follow your expectations of what a time traveler should be doing thinking or feeling than I must be a fraud. Or is it just safer to keep telling yourself that?

((im not paranoid(not too paranoid) but i think it was a terrible idea for TT0(if his story is true) to have told us anything about it.))

Where was this setiment and concern for my safety as I was telling my “story”?

((TT_0 was always saying he has nothing to prove to us..then WHY..WHY come to a TIME TRAVEL forum(and numerous others) to spout off your achievements..))

Is it really that hard to believe that plain old human interaction has it’s own merits?

((I do not say this as a detriment to his words, (since I'm already on record as considering him to be a creative and intelligent person who has a lot to say philosophically), but merely that his declarations on being a time traveler are based on quantum theories that have already been clearly proven to NOT be so.))

Which quantum theories are you talking about? Please forgive me but If I missed a question or if there was something else to go into I would have been happy to do so.

((Either way, it sure would be interesting to hear what kinds of stories you’d share with us next. I know I’m anxious to hear them. How about you?))

TTA wants to hear more from me? Now there’s a turn of events.

…and Borgus, I’m not even sure where to start. Please. Tell me how you really feel.
In retrospect, you do force me to examine whether or not talking like this was a good idea. I still think it was.

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"As I’m sure Pamela can tell you, my email system is made up of quite a few addresses, locations and computers. Some of them work better than others and for a period of time, I have been unable (in my own way) to get to this site."

Yes, I can verify this.

I think just because he couldnot get to this site for awhile was no excuse to attack him for not answering your questions.

I have been over to Art Bells board and really don't see any thing there that goes against what he said here. seems the same to me with some extra things.

Being skeptical is one thing... blaming and accusing is another.

I wouldnt blame him if he didnt want to post here anymore.

Borgus-you say he is uninterested in us. but he did supply a bunch of questions to us that only THREE people out of this whole board even answered! he wanted to know very much how you felt about these things but none of you answered him. yet.. you expected him to continue to answer YOUR questions.
thats not give and take..thats just all take.
and THAT my friend, is selfish.

I don't know if he is really a Time traveler or not. I have seen more and know more than all of you about this. which makes my decision harder.

I have considered all things... I am skeptical but I am also keeping all things in mind.Alot of good points were brought up on both sides.
I have decided skeptism is healthy for everyone.

I do know one thing though....he is a human being. And everyone deserves to be treated with respect as a human being. timetraveler or not.

By the way, I will be gone for about a week and will have no computer access where I am going. I just wanted to mention that so if anybody asks me a question and I don't answer... you will know why and I won't be unneccesarily attacked by anyone.


-pamela

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2 things TT_0.

1. I was right about you coming back just in time. How convenient.

2. You can't spot when someone makes a sarcastic comment.

You truly do intend to move things to your side of things don't you? Just look at the way you speak.

Hey I saw "Left Behind" the movie. You seem to be pulling the same trick the Anti-Christ pulled at the end.

I won't tell the ending, but it's a great movie, you should all watch it.

By the way TT_0, you know what a "Machiavilli" is and does?

Here's a hint, just what your doing.

-Javier C.

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Guest borgus

Thanks Pamela

I see that some of us can't take criticism as well as others

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Guest rgrunt

Dear Deviper,

Yes According to modern theory as far as I know that it would take an infinite amount of energy to pry apart a hadron. Of course the way that this is stated is that it is impossible to pry apart hadrons.


This is speculative in that the scientists assume that no infinite amount of energy could be generated. However I beg to differ. The way my device will work is a fluke of the machanical setup.


By torqueing the field one compressed the field at a perpendicular angle and stretches the field at the parallel angle. By stretching the field in a vertical direction while simultaneously compressing the field in a horizontal angle the kenetic forces applied allow for the compression to be countered by the stretching such that the distribution of the field that propogates parallel is redistributed to propagate perpindicular while simultaneously the portion of the magnetic field that propagates perpendicular is redistributed to propagate parallel.


This creates a shearing force that reaches a critcal stage at the point that the field is constriced to bear the topology of an hourglass at 180 degrees of torque. Torqueing beyond this will pry a gap in the field because greater then infinite(or the upper limit) energy is applied in a given instant at a given point allotting the necesary work ( in watts I think) to pry apart the hadrons thus causing the splitting of hadrons or better yet fission of energy releasing ungodly amounts of energy.


Think of it like this when one splits a mass at the molecular level a small explosion accurs. When one splitts a mass at the nuclear level a very large explossion accurs. When one splitts mass at the energy level an even larger amount of energy will be released.

Edwin G. Schasteen

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Guest DaViper

rgrunt:

Ahhh.

It appears you are coming around to the classic "Double Slit" experiment. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

In the original, the patterns produced on a projection surface originating from a single light source and subsequently passed through two verticle slits produces an interference pattern on that same projection surface that was not easy to explain to the first observers if this phenomena.

It became even more seemingly paradoxical when polarized lenses were applied in 90 degree out of phase configuration much in the same manner we use the same configuration to resolve 3-D images on the motion picture screen. (But of course 3-D film is constructed this way in the first place so we can use this method to resolve it. (Eqrly-mid 20th century Technology, circa 1939 or so.)

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

So....

If what you say could poissibly work out, I'd say you're on the path to solving the infamous EPR Paradox.

Am I reading you correctly here?

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TT_0,

I must say, you have an uncanny effect on some of the people on this board. For instances one individual who backs you up, who’s at your disposal when you call upon her. Mighty impressive.

I’ve been reading over some of this threds past posts. And combined them with the pattern you use to speak in past posts. And what appears to be some sort of helpless character you have, that it reflects in your writings that people can’t help but believe you.

By that I mean, you always being well mannered. Acknowledging your flaws and mistakes. Turning up the charm. Sorta like the thing a double O 7 would do. But it’s all well covert, and I can tell you drilled these exercises to perfection.

I have been one of the only ones in this board who you’ve backed off on answering questions and comments. And you have tired to use the sympathy routine to butter your self up with me before. Didn’t work. And you thought others loved you when you left.

All this that you do, your character, your claims, the way you discus it with us. It’s suspect.

You do not sound genuine. Your personality is not perfect, if that was the goal you wanted to portray to people of this forum.

Though you wish to perfect it, by saying sorry and sugar coating your humanity. I am aware enough to see right through you. And soon, others will be too.

-Javier C.

P.S. I have a prediction in how you might answer this post.

I know, something about insulting the way I write, and the way I use the English language. Well before you do, here’s my answer to you. I’m Spanish.

[This message has been edited by Dymenzionz (edited 14 February 2001).]

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